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Dave
I'm really considering buying a Prius because me and my family have been scraping pennies to put gas in the tank these days. My moms Ford Taurus just ran out of gas the other day and that was the last straw for me. We are dumping around 30 bucks a week of our hard earned cash into that car, and enough is enough. I don't know much about hybrids or electric cars so I want to know how many years can I get out of the battery in the Prius before it needs to be replaced? Especially since i'm looking at a few used 2010 Prius' with around 37-47k miles on them. Are they low maintenance? What kind of gas savings can I expect to get? I just need reliable, low cost transportation back and forth to school.
And I know there is an 8 year/100,000 mile warranty but will the battery last longer than that? I don't want to be replacing a battery every 8 years.
Answer
The mean time between failures for the 2004+ Prius traction battery isn't really known because not enough Prius have reached 300,000 to 400,000 miles yet. There are Prius owners with over 400,000 miles on the original battery. For Prius owners, the traction battery is a non-issue, similar to how an automatic transmission is a non-issue to old fashioned car drivers. The replacement price isn't that high and has been going down every years. It's under $2000 plus $500 installation for a new battery.
http://www.trademotion.com/parts/2012/TOYOTA/PRIUS/?siteid=213747&vehicleid=1503615§ion=HYBRID%20COMPONENTS
Or you can get rebuilt batteries from companies like http://www.re-involt.com/ (Though right now they really only do 2001-2003 Prius batteries because there haven't been enough 2004+ batteries fail. Note that the 2001-2003 use the older style batteries which don't dissipate heat as evenly). Over half the 2001-2003 Prius with the older style battery are still on the original battery, so I wouldn't put all that much faith in statements like "only lasts ten years". Also GM doesn't use the same chemistry as Toyota. GM uses LiOn while Toyota uses NiMH. (Toyota does use LiOn but only in the plug-in-prius).
http://bc.ctvnews.ca/hybrids-prove-very-reliable-1.599754
You can also obtain a battery from a newer wreck for about $500. So, just like an automatic transmission, there are many choices should it fail.
Battery life also depends on environmental conditions.
The Prius also has a small 12V auxiliary battery which lasts about five years.
2004 Prius MPG from the logbook. (Complete years only):
2003-2004 -- 50.8 mpg 17,628 miles
2005 -- 52.6 mpg 14,688 miles
2006 -- 56.3 mpg 16,174 miles
2007 -- 57.3 mpg 18,384 miles
2008 -- 59.9 mpg 21,755 miles
2009 -- 61.4 mpg 16,177 miles
2010 -- 65.2 mpg 12,134 miles
2011 -- 66.9 mpg 11,272 miles
The mean time between failures for the 2004+ Prius traction battery isn't really known because not enough Prius have reached 300,000 to 400,000 miles yet. There are Prius owners with over 400,000 miles on the original battery. For Prius owners, the traction battery is a non-issue, similar to how an automatic transmission is a non-issue to old fashioned car drivers. The replacement price isn't that high and has been going down every years. It's under $2000 plus $500 installation for a new battery.
http://www.trademotion.com/parts/2012/TOYOTA/PRIUS/?siteid=213747&vehicleid=1503615§ion=HYBRID%20COMPONENTS
Or you can get rebuilt batteries from companies like http://www.re-involt.com/ (Though right now they really only do 2001-2003 Prius batteries because there haven't been enough 2004+ batteries fail. Note that the 2001-2003 use the older style batteries which don't dissipate heat as evenly). Over half the 2001-2003 Prius with the older style battery are still on the original battery, so I wouldn't put all that much faith in statements like "only lasts ten years". Also GM doesn't use the same chemistry as Toyota. GM uses LiOn while Toyota uses NiMH. (Toyota does use LiOn but only in the plug-in-prius).
http://bc.ctvnews.ca/hybrids-prove-very-reliable-1.599754
You can also obtain a battery from a newer wreck for about $500. So, just like an automatic transmission, there are many choices should it fail.
Battery life also depends on environmental conditions.
The Prius also has a small 12V auxiliary battery which lasts about five years.
2004 Prius MPG from the logbook. (Complete years only):
2003-2004 -- 50.8 mpg 17,628 miles
2005 -- 52.6 mpg 14,688 miles
2006 -- 56.3 mpg 16,174 miles
2007 -- 57.3 mpg 18,384 miles
2008 -- 59.9 mpg 21,755 miles
2009 -- 61.4 mpg 16,177 miles
2010 -- 65.2 mpg 12,134 miles
2011 -- 66.9 mpg 11,272 miles
Are fully electric cars really the solution to high gas prices?
Carlos
Supposedly, half of the fuel spent during an electric vehicle's life span is spent constructing the vehicle. As gas prices rise, so will the cost of an electric vehicle.
Answer
You raise a good point but these things are never simple. Cars get old and will be replaced in any event. No one is suggesting that you take your 2011 Lexis scrap it and buy a 2012 electric car. The value that is in the lexis is sold to someone else and they avoid the fuel cost involved in a new car.
If you are in the habit of buying a new car every 1 to 3 years then there is energy that goes into either an electric or an ICE (internal combustion engine) vehicle. When we take a look at the specific vehicles we find that an ICE and its associated transmission can have up to 700 moving parts. This is in addition to the thousands of non moving parts used to support motion. The EV can have as few as 5 moving parts. They are far simpler vehicles.
While I have not seen stats on this, one has to assume that more parts equals more transportation for parts to be assembled. More transportation equals more fuel (and of course the resulting pollution.)
While electric vehicles assembly will become more expensive over time so also will ICE vehicles and we might expect more so. As renewable energy becomes a greater part of our electric production long term costs will be reduced. Petrol fuel costs will never be reduced but only rise.
Once the cars are assembled and operating the ICE vehicle is only about 15% efficient at the wheels. That means 85% of the fuel is wasted to inefficiency rather than motion. The EV on the other hand can be more than 90% efficient from battery to wheels. So here is a tremendous fuel saving that starts from the first day of operation.
Finally there is the issue of subsidies. Fossil fuel costs are presently subsidized about 12 times more than renewable energy costs. Because of subsidies the connection between cost and efficiency is broken. The electric vehicle has the potential of using renewable energy for fuel that is not an option for the petrol fueled vehicle. If subsidies were to disappear or be adversely affected by an embargo or a war the EV could remain cheaper to operate, in addition to being more efficient, while the petrol vehicle could be priced to extinction.
You raise a good point but these things are never simple. Cars get old and will be replaced in any event. No one is suggesting that you take your 2011 Lexis scrap it and buy a 2012 electric car. The value that is in the lexis is sold to someone else and they avoid the fuel cost involved in a new car.
If you are in the habit of buying a new car every 1 to 3 years then there is energy that goes into either an electric or an ICE (internal combustion engine) vehicle. When we take a look at the specific vehicles we find that an ICE and its associated transmission can have up to 700 moving parts. This is in addition to the thousands of non moving parts used to support motion. The EV can have as few as 5 moving parts. They are far simpler vehicles.
While I have not seen stats on this, one has to assume that more parts equals more transportation for parts to be assembled. More transportation equals more fuel (and of course the resulting pollution.)
While electric vehicles assembly will become more expensive over time so also will ICE vehicles and we might expect more so. As renewable energy becomes a greater part of our electric production long term costs will be reduced. Petrol fuel costs will never be reduced but only rise.
Once the cars are assembled and operating the ICE vehicle is only about 15% efficient at the wheels. That means 85% of the fuel is wasted to inefficiency rather than motion. The EV on the other hand can be more than 90% efficient from battery to wheels. So here is a tremendous fuel saving that starts from the first day of operation.
Finally there is the issue of subsidies. Fossil fuel costs are presently subsidized about 12 times more than renewable energy costs. Because of subsidies the connection between cost and efficiency is broken. The electric vehicle has the potential of using renewable energy for fuel that is not an option for the petrol fueled vehicle. If subsidies were to disappear or be adversely affected by an embargo or a war the EV could remain cheaper to operate, in addition to being more efficient, while the petrol vehicle could be priced to extinction.
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